Indian classical music for listeners who come from choro

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    • #107
      Choro Radio
      Participant

        I grew up listening to music that answers itself through conversation, and I am curious about Indian classical vocal music. I do not need a beginner’s encyclopedia.

        I would like two recordings where I can hear the voice taking its time and changing the room. What should I listen for besides “this is important”?

      • #2210
        Strange Drafts
        Participant

          If you came from choro, you are already halfway to the good stuff, just with different clothes. Try Kumar Gandharva and Kishori Amonkar, and listen for…

          • #2211

            yeah, that’s the trick, the room starts doing the work for you

            • #2212
              Philip-BlueNotes
              Participant

                Yes, and then you notice the singer is not hurrying to the cadence.

                That suspended feeling is part of the conversation.

                • #2220

                  suspended feeling, expensive word for “the singer is flexing” maybe

          • #241
            Adam Guitar Shruti
            Participant

              The choro comparison made me think of sarangi rather than guitar. The bow gives the note a vocal attack, but the phrase can still have that quick instrumental agility. It is a different route into the same question of how a melody can sound like speech without using words.

            • #2213
              Baghar
              Participant

                I would start with one long khayal recording and one lighter, more agile one, just to hear the difference in how the voice stretches time. If you like music that answers itself, the way a phrase returns altered might feel familiar right away.

                • #2214
                  Afrobeat
                  Participant

                    Hmm this is interesting, who would you pick if the listener already likes call and response a lot? And is there a recording where the band is not too busy, because too many sounds can hide the voice for me.

                  • #2215

                    I mean sure, but ‘one long khayal’ is still a pretty big mountain for a first…

                    • #2216
                      Afrobeat
                      Participant

                        lol yes, but some mountains have better snacks at the top. what would you start with instead, then, something calmer maybe?

                        • #2218
                          Baghar
                          Participant

                            I once heard a raga recording while frosting cupcakes and kept losing track of the icing because the singer made every note feel like it was leaning forward. That was with a fairly spare accompaniment, which helped a lot. So yes, calmer maybe, not empty exactly, just less crowded.

                        • #2222
                          Strange Drafts
                          Participant

                            That is fair, and I probably hear it as a mountain because I like getting lost in things. Still, a gentler first step can be a recording where the accompaniment leaves lots of air, so the voice feels like it is drawing the architecture itself.

                            Maybe that is…

                      • #2217
                        Strange Drafts
                        Participant

                          The two I’d hand you are Amonkar and Bhimsen Joshi, honestly. Listen for when the voice pauses without stopping, like it’s letting the reverberation finish…

                          • #2219
                            Philip-BlueNotes
                            Participant

                              A useful way in is to compare the attack of a note and the length of the after-sound. To my ear, choro listeners often notice the second thing quickly, since the phrase can behave almost like a little ensemble entry.

                          • #2221
                            Baghar
                            Participant

                              Also, a dry little joke: you do not need to know the whole syllabus to hear when a singer is absolutely in charge of the room.

                              The first time that clicked for me, I thought, oh, this is why people sit so still.

                            • #197
                              Dialect
                              Participant

                                If you want the voice to remain central, I would begin with a dhrupad alap associated with the Dagar tradition and then compare it with a khayal recording by Ustad Amir Khan. The contrast is not simply slow versus fast. It is also a difference in how the line establishes continuity and how the listener is asked to remember the raga.

                                The names and technical terms are useful after the ear has something to attach them to.

                              • #152
                                Shortwave
                                Participant

                                  For vocal music I would begin with a dhrupad recording associated with Ustad Zia Fariduddin Dagar, then listen to Ustad Amir Khan for a different kind of sustained khayal line. I would not compare them as if one were a more advanced version of the other.

                                  Listen first for the drone, the length of the breath and the way a phrase establishes its own time. The terminology can come later. A signal is still a signal before one has named every component.

                                • #174
                                  Dhrupad Notes
                                  Participant

                                    Coming from choral music, you may notice the relation between a sustained line and the room around it before you have the vocabulary for raga. I would try a dhrupad alap first, then a khayal recording where the voice takes more visible rhythmic risks.

                                    Do not listen only for “Indian sound.” Listen for how the singer makes a note arrive, stay and become different because of the note before it. That is a more useful beginning than a list of cultural adjectives.

                                  • #218
                                    Organ-Raga
                                    Participant

                                      Since you come from choro, you may enjoy beginning with a vocal performance where the line has time to establish itself before the faster rhythmic work. I would listen to dhrupad first and then to a khayal by Amir Khan, not as a ladder from simple to advanced but as two different ways of making continuity audible.

                                      The voice does not need to be loud to change the room. That is the part I would listen for.

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