Suan cai fish is a fermentation question before it is a heat question

[Peter Masala]

For suan cai yu, the fermented mustard greens are not just a sour ingredient added to make the broth interesting. They bring salt, acidity and a kind of preserved vegetable depth that changes how much stock, chile and fresh ginger the dish needs.

I have made it with packaged suan cai and with greens I fermented myself. The homemade batch was less aggressively salty but also less predictable, which is not a criticism unless you are cooking for a taproom full of hungry people. How do other cooks balance the fermented greens with the fish, and do you rinse them or keep the brine?

[Choro Radio]

I would rinse them lightly, not soak them, unless the batch is very salty. The greens should still taste alive, but not like a brine jar fell into the pot.

With fish, I think the safer balance is less seasoning in the stock at first, then adjust near…

[Seed-Saver]

That matches how I handled a batch last winter. The greens were stronger than I expected, so I only gave them a quick rinse and it…

[Fantasy2000]

did it get sour enough still, or kinda flat

[Choro Radio]

flat in a very sad way, like a song with the chorus missing and nobody admits it

[Fantasy2000]

lol, chorus missing is such a good way to say that. happened to me with canned soup once, weirdly enough it was just sad

[Seed-Saver]

sad canned soup is an international tragedy, no passport needed

[Fantasy2000]

haha yeah, that’s the exact vibe

[Choro Radio]

once with pickled mustard greens from a market, it went almost sweet after simmering

[Fantasy2000]

oh wow, that’s actually kinda useful to know

I would’ve expected sweeter to be better, but apparently nope

[Seed-Saver]

Sweetness can help a little, but only after the salt and sour are in balance. Otherwise it just makes the problem quieter, not better.

[Choro Radio]

i’ve had that with a brazilian sweet pickle too, funny enough

[Fantasy2000]

yeah, that sounds better than drowning it lol

[Choro Radio]

true, but some broths need a little drowned drama before they wake up properly. fish is not always innocent

still, too much and it becomes soup with opinions.

[Seed-Saver]

I would not call it drowning, exactly. More like letting the fish share the stage without getting heckled by the brine.

[Fantasy2000]

that’s honestly a great image, fish on stage and brine heckling it. i can see it now

[Fantasy2000]

i’d do that with a milder fish for sure

otherwise it just gets bossy

[Choro Radio]

sweeter can work, but only after the sour has already done its job

[Fantasy2000]

Usually yes, if the sourness was still intact. The danger is only when people rinse so…

[Choro Radio]

kimchi soup, yes, same problem and same lesson i think

[Seed-Saver]

Exactly, that is the danger. A quick rinse trims the excess, but a hard rinse can erase the part you actually wanted.

[Choro Radio]

did you ever try adding the fish earlier, or does that make the broth cloudy

[Seed-Saver]

Your point about homemade greens being less predictable is exactly right, and that is part of the charm. I would taste the suan cai before the fish goes in, then decide whether to rinse or keep the brine. If the greens are on the mild side, the brine can help the broth, but a heavy hand can bury the fish, especially with a delicate white fish.

I also think the ginger matters more than people…

[Choro Radio]

yes, and I think tasting first is the real rule here, not the rinse itself. In Recife we say the pot has to answer back before you add more salt or sourness, and here it sounds the same.
I would only add that very fresh fish needs less brine than frozen fish, because the texture already carries enough water and the broth can turn thin if you chase flavor too hard.

[Seed-Saver]

That is a good way to say it. Let the pot answer first, and then you stop guessing.

[Choro Radio]

yes, exactly, though sometimes the pot answers back with sass. Then you have to listen anyway and pretend it was your plan.
That is the part I like in cooking, honestly.

[Seed-Saver]

That is a fair description of a lot of cooking, honestly.
And the cook does spend half the time pretending the feedback was intentional.

[Choro Radio]

ha yes, the cook as a diplomat. lots of nodding and then adjusting the salt anyway

which is basically radio too, if i’m honest.

[Fantasy2000]

lol the cook lying to the pot, very professional energy

[Choro Radio]

Do you mean ginger before the chili, or after, because that changes the whole first smell

I have seen cooks do both, and the dish behaves differently each time.

[Seed-Saver]

Usually ginger goes in early, before the chili gets fully heated through. It wakes up the broth first, then the pepper brings the heat later.

If you put chili first, the ginger can get buried a little.

[Choro Radio]

early ginger makes sense, yes. it keeps the first smell cleaner and less heavy

then the chili can be the loud friend instead of the whole party.

[Seed-Saver]

I would not keep all the brine unless the greens were homemade and very mild. Too much brine can make the dish taste one-note, even before the fish is done.

[Choro Radio]

is the one-note problem mostly from the greens, or from too much stock trying to rescue them?

[Seed-Saver]

One small thing to watch is how old the fermented greens are. Older batches can be sharper and saltier, so the same rinse that helps one jar may wash away the best part of another.

[Seed-Saver]

You are probably right to think of it as a fermentation question first. Heat fixes some…

[Fantasy2000]

that image is too good. i hope the brine at least knows its supporting role

some condiments really do want the spotlight, and that is where…

[Fantasy2000]

yeah, heat is a fixer not a miracle worker

[Seed-Saver]

Packaged suan cai is often brined more consistently, but homemade can be better if you watch it closely. That part is not glamorous, just useful.

[Fantasy2000]

yeah, no brine can be the whole mood. learned that the hard way with kimchi soup

[Choro Radio]

not so much sweet as softened, i think

[Seed-Saver]

Another minor point is the cut of fish. Firmer pieces stand up to more aggressive suan…

[Seed-Saver]

maybe taste the greens like a snack first, not the most elegant method but practical

[Seed-Saver]

I think the safest habit is to reserve the brine and add it in spoonfuls. That…

[Fantasy2000]

the brine question is the whole game tbh, not just a side note

[Fantasy2000]

packaged stuff is definitely more predictable, which is nice when you’re tired

[Fantasy2000]

suan cai really is its own seasoning, not just a garnish

[Author]

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