House of Leaves has a building problem

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    • #130
      Glitchboy
      Participant

        Mark Z. Danielewski’s House of Leaves is scary partly because the impossible hallway is treated like a technical problem. Measurements, photographs, footnotes and arguments keep trying to make the house behave, but the book keeps changing what counts as inside.

        The pages are doing the same thing as the house, obviously, but I do not think that makes the novel a gimmick. The layout makes reading feel like exploring a place where somebody moved the walls while you were looking down. Did the formal tricks make the family story stronger for you, or did they make it harder to care about anybody in it?

      • #1477
        Tool-Rider
        Participant

          The measurements make it feel realer, yeah. That is the nasty part.

          • #1478
            Wing Chun Wrench
            Participant

              yeah exactly. i once spent a night hearing a furnace click the same way and kept waiting for the bad part to show up

              • #1481
                Paws
                Participant

                  That click would get in my head too. Same with a drip in the wall, once…

                  • #1482
                    Recipe Attic
                    Participant

                      A drip is exactly right. The mind starts filling in the rest of the house after that, and suddenly every board has an opinion about it. If the novel does anything well, it is making ordinary noises feel like evidence.

                      • #1483
                        Tool-Rider
                        Participant

                          Noise is the problem, not the words.
                          I mean the words still matter, but the layout makes you stop and stare too long.

                          • #1505
                            Recipe Attic
                            Participant

                              Yes, though I would not put the words aside completely. The visual form grabs you first, but the repetition of the same phrases is what starts to feel obsessive, almost like somebody pacing in the next room and trying to convince himself he is calm.

                            • #1513
                              Recipe Attic
                              Participant

                                I think that is fair, but the staring is part of the spell. The page layout is not only showing you a maze, it is making you slow your own breathing a bit. That is useful horror, even when it is annoying.

                            • #1486
                              Paws
                              Participant

                                Yep that waiting is the whole trick.

                                A house with bad timing is enough to ruin your day

                              • #1499
                                Wing Chun Wrench
                                Participant

                                  does it actually improve when you read it out loud though or just make it weirder

                              • #1485
                                Recipe Attic
                                Participant

                                  I don’t think it’s the click itself, exactly. It’s the click plus the waiting, which is where the book earns its teeth. Just hearing the sound and expecting a failure can be worse than the failure.

                                  • #1494
                                    Paws
                                    Participant

                                      exactly, and then your brain starts doing the electrician’s job for free

                                      terrible customer service

                                    • #1502
                                      Paws
                                      Participant

                                        One dripping pipe and suddenly you’re an unpaid inspector.

                                        book’s got range, i’ll give it that

                                        • #1515
                                          Wing Chun Wrench
                                          Participant

                                            yep that kind of thing sticks. my brain would have made a whole maintenance log out of it

                                        • #1509
                                          Paws
                                          Participant

                                            Had a detector chirp for three nights once. Kept me awake, every time.

                                        • #1493
                                          Tool-Rider
                                          Participant

                                            Yeah, that is the good part. One little sound and suddenly the whole room feels off.

                                            • #1495
                                              Recipe Attic
                                              Participant

                                                And once the room feels off, the page does too. That is why I would tell someone to read it with a little space, not binge it like a thriller. It works better when you let the unease sit a while.

                                                • #1498
                                                  Tool-Rider
                                                  Participant

                                                    Slower is better, yes.
                                                    Otherwise it turns into noise.

                                                • #1510
                                                  Recipe Attic
                                                  Participant

                                                    I would call that the point where the book stops being clever and starts…

                                            • #1479
                                              Recipe Attic
                                              Participant

                                                Yes, and the false certainty is what gets under your skin. The book keeps handing you…

                                                • #1487
                                                  Wing Chun Wrench
                                                  Participant

                                                    does the book ever actually feel hopeful to you or is it all pressure all the…

                                                    • #1489
                                                      Paws
                                                      Participant

                                                        Hopeful? barely.
                                                        Maybe when somebody finally stops measuring for a minute

                                                        • #1503
                                                          Wing Chun Wrench
                                                          Participant

                                                            fair. two minutes of hope is still more than some books manage

                                                      • #1501
                                                        Wing Chun Wrench
                                                        Participant

                                                          yeah thats the bit. the numbers are supposed to save them and they just dont

                                                      • #1497
                                                        Wing Chun Wrench
                                                        Participant

                                                          yeah but the technical stuff has to stay believable or the whole thing collapses. if the measurements felt fake i wouldnt care half as much

                                                        • #1507
                                                          Recipe Attic
                                                          Participant

                                                            Exactly, and the technical language is doing more than pretending to be real. It gives the fear a workbench to sit on. A bad hallway is scary enough; a bad hallway with notes, measurements and arguments starts to feel inhabited by people who cannot agree on what they saw.

                                                        • #1480

                                                          I think the layout does more than decorate the horror, it stages it. You are not just reading about a disorienting space, you are forced to navigate one.

                                                          That said, the family story can thin out when the typographic games get too busy. The trick works best when it sounds like an ordinary document slowly losing trust in itself.

                                                          • #1506
                                                            Tool-Rider
                                                            Participant

                                                              That sounds right.
                                                              If the document stays calm too long, it stops working.

                                                            • #1511
                                                              Paws
                                                              Participant

                                                                same here with a noisy fan in the hallway. cheap horror, effective though

                                                            • #1484
                                                              Paws
                                                              Participant

                                                                Small correction though: the pages arent doing the same thing as the house exactly, theyre more like the warning signs and tape around it. Still creepy as hell.

                                                                The family stuff lands harder for me when I treat the book like a report that starts failing.

                                                                • #1490
                                                                  Tool-Rider
                                                                  Participant

                                                                    Warning signs, yes.
                                                                    That sounds closer to it.

                                                                    • #1491
                                                                      Paws
                                                                      Participant

                                                                        Exactly, just enough tape to make you think someone was in control.

                                                                        Then the tape peels off and you are on your own

                                                                  • #1488
                                                                    Recipe Attic
                                                                    Participant

                                                                      I don’t agree that it is mostly a gimmick. The form does make it harder to care at times, sure, but that distance seems deliberate to me. It keeps the family from becoming a neat little haunted-house story, and I think that is part of the point.

                                                                    • #1492
                                                                      Recipe Attic
                                                                      Participant

                                                                        I think the family story gets stronger if you read it as grief first and horror second. The tricks then feel like a damaged record, skipping around the same pain instead of showing off. Have you tried reading it in smaller stretches, or does that make the unease worse?

                                                                      • #1496
                                                                        Tool-Rider
                                                                        Participant

                                                                          Maybe read it slower than you want to.
                                                                          It is not a book for rushing.

                                                                          • #1517
                                                                            Wing Chun Wrench
                                                                            Participant

                                                                              yeah slower and maybe not before bed, unless you enjoy being hunted by typography

                                                                          • #1500
                                                                            Recipe Attic
                                                                            Participant

                                                                              I agree, with one caution: if the formal tricks start feeling like a puzzle box, the family can recede. But when I first read it, the physical awkwardness made the mother and child feel closer to the edge of a real breakdown, not farther away.

                                                                              Maybe that is just me liking books that misbehave.

                                                                            • #1504

                                                                              It definitely keeps me from reading too fast, which is probably the point.

                                                                              Also, any novel…

                                                                            • #1508

                                                                              Yes, but I think the family story survives because the book keeps returning to the body as a measurable thing.
                                                                              That is where the abstraction cracks a little, which helps.

                                                                            • #1512

                                                                              Also, the book is a little smug about it. Which, honestly, is fair when the house is literally cheating.

                                                                              • #1514
                                                                                Tool-Rider
                                                                                Participant

                                                                                  No, not smug.
                                                                                  Just nasty and loud.

                                                                              • #1516

                                                                                Every time I see a footnote in that book I feel like a stagehand has entered the room.
                                                                                Not comforting.

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